BASS - PITCH SLIDING

[FOKI26]

Anybody help me with these few questions;http://www.itstooloud.com/smileys/smiley36.gif


Was wondering if somebody could give me some tips on programming bass lines.


The main thing i'm trying to get my head round of late is using pitch modulation to make my bass notes slide. The effect i'm after is basically to get my sub-bass to sound like it's dropping through the floor (from a great height).


I'm using Logic 5, and have been drawing in (linear) lines that make the pitch of my notes drop over 2 octaves (1 oct above the note i'm playing, down to 1 oct below).... does this sound right ?


Here's where i'm unsure what to do next;


1) Should my pitch bend lines be linear, or should i have curves (any tips on how curved, and which way curved works best ?)


2) Should I stage the pitch drops to hold at different points on the pitch scale (i.e other notes in the same chord being used for my tune)? If so, how long should i hold the point for (equal amounts 64ths, 128ths, etc), and how frequent should the holds be applied (is more better to create an LFO type effect on the aplied notes, or is it best used sparingly) ?


3) How fast should the length of the drops be; 16ths, 32nds (more/less....?) some examples here would be useful. My understanding here is that they have to be pretty fast or the whole thing will sound out of tune for a split second. But obviously if it's too fast, you don't hear/feel it.





Other stuff;


4) Should i use reverb on (sub) bass also.....i've read quite a bit that reverb should never be used on bass as it just muddies everything up in the low end, but i'm pretty sure i've heard it on tracks..... How do you do yours?????? If you do use reverb, what types tend to work well ? (plate, room etc)


Any help with the above would be greatly appreciated, and any other bass tips greatly received.http://www.itstooloud.com/smileys/smiley16.gif

[Tobes]

im gonna sit back and learn on this aswell mate, good questions http://www.itstooloud.com/smileys/smiley20.gif

[LostProphet]

If you wanna use reverb on your bass a good little trick is to split your bass line into separate parts: one being sub-bass in the 20 -65 hz range the other being mid-bass somewhere around 500-600 hz (whatever the sweet spot is for you)


a tiny splash of verb' on the midbass can work wonders, also the Northpole plugin is quite handy as well, it's not reverb, but it can give your bass that extra resonance your looking for...





ez-John

[puralocha]

seems like you figured it out in your question ...

here's something you could try .... i use filtrator from tcnative to achieve this bass slide sort of thing at times ...

set to high pass and make sure you can overdrive the signal output .... set the resonance high on and sweep down from the mid range through the bass .... you should get a sliding down pitch overdriven distorted bass .... and if you go opposite wise you'll get a sliding up pitch howl thing as well ... if you automate that (or realtime it) to the part your emphasizing it'll go subbalistic !!!!!

i suggest using a group channel for this so you can eq the output and still get the slide effect in the track ..

hope this helps out ....

saludos!

[Kenny Dee]

My head's gonna explode....! http://www.itstooloud.com/smileys/smiley11.gif


I've been looking into doing a night course on Logic....after i do that i might have a little bit of a clue what all the above actually means! http://www.itstooloud.com/smileys/smiley36.gif


Sounds like y'all know your sh*t though! :smiley2:Edited by: Kenny Dee

[Tobes]

bring it on guys, i dont know what your on about, but i will read through this with the studio on and check it out, nice one guys http://www.itstooloud.com/smileys/smiley32.gif

[FOKI26]

If i were you i'd do the course in Logic mate, defo worth it.





I've been producing for about 5 years now, and only started using Logic'properly'this year. I could never get my head round using it before, and much preferred using other methods to sequence my music (hardware sequencing).


After doinga shortcourse in Logic i feel like i'd wasted a hell of a lot of time just messing about trying to figure it all out on my own, without actually getting very far.... which is the annoying thing, and probs the stage you're at now....





They'll probs only teach you the basics of how to use the programme, and not how to go about making any specific music, but it'll give you a good basis of how to go about using the thing. More importantly you'll then be able to get your own ideas up and running in no time.

[jcat]

Hi,


I'm assumingyou're using a synth for the bass noise. Set the pitch wheel so that it slides by an octave instead of the standard two semi tones, then starting with the wheel turned up (sounds pitched up by and octave) play the note you want, then still holding the note slowly move the wheel down through the centre position and right to the other end (sounds pitched down by an octave). That should give you a two octave slide in total. It's really only a matter of taste whether or not you want to go in steps or in one smooth line.


Hope that helps a bit...


jcat
Edited by: jcat

[FOKI26]

Hi Jcat,





Think you may have misunderstood, i do this already.








It's the sharp drops in pitch on certain notes i'm trying to get, and how to go about modulating thedegreeof the slide (how fast to get the desired effect, is it a linear drop etc).





Any help on this you could offer would be greatly appreciated.





By the way, got a CD of yours from ages ago, soz never got back in touch to give you any feeback. Some good stuff from what i remember.....

[jcat]

Hi Foki,


Sorry I misread your post, it was a little early for me and I was still http://www.itstooloud.com/webwiz/smileys/smiley12.gif</v:stroke></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:f></v:ulas></v:path><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shape>.


Maybe you should try using the Portamento control, most synths have this. It controls the amount of time it takes for the pitch to slide from one note to the next if you press the next note just before releasing the first one. So you could do the fast drop using individual notes and usea smallPortamento setting to take the edge off and smooth the transition a little.


Or failing that, you could (though it's probably more time consuming), just use the pitch wheel set-up as before, and draw in everything manually.


I think I would use the Portamento option, but this is usually a strain line change, so you don't have the option of a graduallyaccelerating orslowingpitch change.





Hmmm, has this helped any?


Glad you liked the CD, it's quite old now (it was old even then), I've a new collection of songs in the making, I'll post some stuff for the Forums listening pleasure at some stage... http://www.itstooloud.com/webwiz/smileys/smiley2.gif





Cheers,


jcat

[FOKI26]

Cheers mate,





Think i'll stick to the drawing in method, already dabbled with the portamento and it's not giving me the desired result really..... like you said it's probs a bit too linear....





What i'll probs do is battle on trying to find the best slope i can by drawing in a curve manually and save it as a template..... this should save me having tomess about each time setting the whole thing back up.


I've found that holding the pitch (even if it is only for mili, mili seconds) it helps to create a bit more movement in the sound as it sort of stutters the slide, yet keeps it in the right musical key if positioned correctly on the value scale.





Here's a bit of a tip;


To identify points in the value scale you can use that will be in the same key you're track is being played in,simply divide 64 (points on the scale you can the bend pitch by)by 12 (number of semitones in1 octave)


1 semitone therefore = 5.333333333333 (or there aboutshttp://www.itstooloud.com/smileys/smiley16.gif)


From this justdo the maths between notes/semitones and draw in points on the scale where it's safe to hold the pitch.


I don't know any chords off the top of my head but i can find out if anybody still doesn't understand and needs an example.





* Hope this all makes sensehttp://www.itstooloud.com/webwiz/smileys/smiley11.gif

[jcat]

Just another quick thought. If we're talking about a soft synth you may be able to auomate the portamento control so that the rate changes over time, that would give you a curve instaed of a straight line.


Anyhoo, good luck! http://www.itstooloud.com/webwiz/smileys/smiley1.gif





Cheers,


jcat

[FOKI26]

It's not a soft synth i've been using to do this, it's a nova....... but this is still possible and something i will be looking at once i can find out the CC number for the portamento time.





Cheers mate.

[Tobes]

good read guys, keep it coming i need some lessons too :smiley4:

[Kenny Dee]

i feel like i'd wasted a hell of a lot of time just messing about trying to figure it all out on my own, without actually getting very far.... which is the annoying thing, and probs the stage you're at now....





You're damn right thats the stage i'm at now! http://www.itstooloud.com/smileys/smiley19.gif


I just cannot do ANYTHING with it.....and when i see all the sh*t you lot are chatting about, it makes me wanna learn properly....know what i mean???? :smiley2:

[FOKI26]

I know it's anightmare mate, and it all can seem intimidating but try to concentrate on learning one thing at a time.....





How far have you got at the minute.... what can you get Logic to actually do ?





Let's see if we can get u some 'getting started' tutorials sorted out....Edited by: FOKI26

[Oracle]

mate, Kenny - we'll get u started man....its not that hard. u just gotta tell us what u r doin right now with the program!

[Kenny Dee]

Well so far, i can add an instrument on to that GM mixer ting, and get it to play one note over and over again! http://www.itstooloud.com/smileys/smiley36.gif


I've checked out loads of tutorials, but none of em seem to be aimed at "complete newbies"!

[FOKI26]

Ok mate, here's a quick starter;





Open Logic and you should be presented with a blank arrange window. you'll see there are 3 differnt types of rows on the left hand side (the channels) some will be audio channels, some audio instrument channels and some GM (probs say things like Grand Piano etc)....


Click on the channel for Audio instrument 1 and then in the big blank space (to the right) double click and a coloured block should appear. Double click on the block and it should open up a big grid (matrix editor) draw in a few notes with th pencil tool (any will do, just so it can play something).





Close this window and go back to the arrange window. Double click on where it says audio instr' 1on the channel, this should now open up what looks like a big mixer. Scroll left/right until you find the channel for aud' instr 1 (the names at the bottom i think). At the top of that channel should be 2 small grey boxes called inserts. Click on one of these (r mouse button i think) and you should get a drop down menu of where you pick the vst instruments from. choose any for now, and the instrument should load up (if u have it pick one from the logic folder). Will probs look like the controls of a spaceship, vst's usually do for some stupid reason.





Now going back to the arrange window click play and voilla your programmed notes should now be played using that instrument.....





This should get you up and running, now all you have to do is experiment. To change the sounds in the instrument, click one ofthe buttons at the top of the instrument and you should be presented with the option 'presets'... flick through them until you find a sound you like and take it from there.


Hope this is useufl, as i'm writing this all from memory and there be some obvious bits i've missed out... give me a shout if you're stuck....

[Tobes]

Double click on the block and it should open up a big grid (matrix editor) draw in a few notes with th pencil tool (any will do, just so it can play something).





bit of a bummer as the matrix isnt set as defualt to open when you double click a part http://www.itstooloud.com/smileys/smiley19.gifyou need to set that up in the options.... :smiley4:

[FOKI26]

Yeah forgot about that, ok before you start any of what i wrote click on the options menu and look through the tabs. You're looking for something that says double click opens 'score editor' (or something like that), change this to matrix editor as it should be available in a drop down menu.

[Kenny Dee]

Safe safe safe! http://www.itstooloud.com/smileys/smiley32.gif


Cheers for the info FOKI.....it's printed out, and will be tested when i go home tonight! :smiley2:


I've got a tutorial tobes sorted out a while back at home as well....(so its probably his fault i cant do nothing with it!!!) http://www.itstooloud.com/smileys/smiley36.gif