forshay..

[crazygit1]

yeah i could do with some samples mate,you was righti am a bit restricted on the sample front, i bought the cd of accapellas from fellers hopefully should get it in a few days,that should be fun 70 odd hours worth..have you got or can reccomend any good samples for d&b.. tried messaging you but it wont let me says ya box is full.. anyways hope you can help me out.. cheers matey.

[forshay]

man I did not see this, apologies crazygit, truth is , im just starting to produce dnb so am not the best to ask for dnb samples, i have a few breaks and wierd noises, but nothing special, just starting to use synapse junglist, oooh lovely bass mate!!

[FOKI26]

I wouldn't advise going out and buying a dnb sample cd to be honest, as good as they are they don't really shine in the originality department considering most of the decent samples have been used to death.





If you're determined however to go down the sample cd route, i'd advise you go for cd's that have muti-sampled instruments (i.e strings, or piano etc) and you can then use them as an instrument rather than being stuck with a loop/riff that somebody else has played for you.

[forshay]

definatley foki, i want to be original and try to steer clear of overused sounds, but would you suggest to me who is looking to be some equipment to make some good sounds? nothing too heavy, ive mastered the sequencers and stuff, want to get to creating new snares and kicks man, got vsts for pads and bass etc, midis, just about to fire up a big boy pc ive finished building, so no more crashes !!! smooth sailing from here, can get more serious with music by using all this software i got! but whats the next step do you reckon?grateful for advice if youve got any.

[FOKI26]

Ok, for me it's all about the breaks, everything else come's second IMO !


I buy a shiz load of old funk and use the breaks from there. chop them up, re-sequence them and build your track around 1 break to start with. I always start with a 16 bar loop based around 1 break, try to create a bit of variety in it (don't have the same thing just looping round....that's the main thing i hate about dnb). Add in a few fills, stutter up hits, and don't be scared to start putting in bits that you can't really here. These bits make all the difference, it's all about subtle changes. Personally i keep going with this until i have a 16 bar break solo that sounds good on it's own... this is the basis for my track.


Developing this further i'll start layering extra hits (extra snares, and hats all pitched, and enveloped slightly differently) this helps to put some meat in the bones. Pitched down snares seem to work best with a bit of attack removed via an envelope, this helps to give that nice crunchy undertone to your overall snare sound. Be careful layering kicks tho as they could go all dull in the mix. a good tip is to get a nice sharp kick (lots of attack, almost like a tap) and layer this with a dull, bottom heavy kick. With a bit of EQ/filter to seperate the frequencies you should get 1 nice powerful, and clear kick in the end.


Note that at this stage i haven't used 'any' effects, i always try to get a good sound to start with, don't try to cover up crap sounds with an effect. It just makes them worse i've found.


Now create another version of your 16 bar loop, and try to make it sound a bit busier with extra hits again, or sawp some hits (change your kick etc),or simply by increasing the velocity on some hits etc ! This can be used for the main part of your track, whereas the other can be for the intro etc.


Compress the whole thing live to keep the levels in check and treat to a bit of reverb (how much is upto you and how you want your track to sound....it can vary quite a bit, so experiment).





I wouldn't worry about going out looking for new kit etc, learn to get the most out of the kit you've got..... It's a myth to think that most producers have the best studio's, that's bullshiz.... it's all about how you use and manipulate the things you've got.... Samples from obscure places are the best thing really, i buy some proper shiz old music that i wouldn't dream of listening to normally, but if it's got that little something i want in my tune, or an influence i could impose on my own work then listen to it over and over and take the bits that suit your track, or copy them if you can (usually the best bet).


Not sure if this is the sort of advice you're after, but feel free to give me a shout whenever and i'll be more than happy to help you out where i can.....(and in more detail if you want specific help with something !)


The whole reason i'm here mate.....

[Tobes]

I wouldn't advise going out and buying a dnb sample cd to be honest, as good as they are they don't really shine in the originality department considering most of the decent samples have been used to death.





sorry foki mate i have to disagree, ive got some really good d'n'b sample cd's, they are great for complex breaks and sh*t, check out a company called time and space, also big fish audio.


there are some really good german d'n'b sample cd's also.


good luck mate

[FOKI26]

Yeah, got a few actually and they're ok...don't get me wrong..... I just don't like the idea of using the same oldsounds as everybody else (i.e pads, leads etc).


Basically the bits that have been done for you....


Breaks on these CD's are ok tho, because you can do so much more with them once you've chopped them up and made them into a drum kit, so i can seewhere you're coming from in that respect.

[forshay]

FOKI, thats top class advice mate, its sort of clarified what i know as no one really helped me and ive more to go on now, i see what youre saying about big studios, its not really needed, I just thought there might be some hardware that ill help me make sounds easier, more functional like, spose the old midi keys are ok to do that then, have you heard of audiomulch (www.audiomulch.com/ (http://www.audiomulch.com/)) looks useful, to be original with, and the breaks, on the same vibe mate, i like the old skool hiphop jazzy funky stuff , whats the best software to play with breaks then, recycle? what about phatmatic pro, i had a demo, was really cool, cheers for your help mate, Ill definatley need some more wisdom once ive powered up this new pc, cheers.

[FOKI26]

No probs mate, Audiomulch looks all good also, although saying that you can get original sounds out of any soft/hard synth providing you've got access to control of the oscillators (the bits that make the raw sound). Obviously soft synths are all different so they each impose their own characteristics basically on a sound you could get out of any synth. The point i'm getting at here is how you process those sounds is where the originality comes from, the type, amount, and order of effects you impose, how you EQ the sound, how you shape the sound with an envelope etc.... Probs the easiset thing in the world to say, but experiment until you get something you like.


As for breaks, i just chop them up in Soundforge, some people prefer Recycle as it gives you rex files, personally i don't think it's all that..... but some people swear by it, use whatever suits you.


For sequencing the breaks I just use Logic, set the grid to 32nds (or even 16th's) to get the beats basically in place, and then start moving them slightly in/out of time to get that swung/natural/live feeling.


What you say about any special hardware...... i'll probs get shot down in flames for saying this but i couldn't survive just using software synths.... there's too many VST's that all sound the same to me.... although i'd recomend Albino & Absynth as they're quite good and have a different sort of sound to them, but don't go expecting them to blow you away. Don't get me wrong i don't think VST's are shiz, but they could be a bit more varied IMO.


If you're using software samplers tho that'll be ok as long as you've got a good source of samples.


I use a Korg Triton rack, and still can't belive how good it sounds, and more importantly how different it sounds to everything else on the market.

[forshay]

Cheers:smiley2:


now you got me wondering what your stuff sounds like, best to hear what you do straight off, anything online foki?

[Kenny Dee]

Yeah man.....got anything we can check out foki???? Sounds as if you know what you're doing.....it would be cool tohear some beats though innit :smiley2:


(Plus i can see if this course ya on is worth the ca$h!!!) http://www.itstooloud.com/smileys/smiley36.gif

[forshay]

Ill put stuff up today that im working on, actually been on the dnb tip for about2/3 weeks, my new found paths!!! totally feel at home with it, loving the darkness but need to know the professional tricks, fokis on top with the advice hes giving, just gotta experiment some, but loving it, should be doing other things but lots of studio time the last week, cant beat it, will cut a little bit im doing right now.


http://www.itstooloud.com/webwiz//smileys/smiley2.gif

[FOKI26]

Not got anything on line yet, the first thing i'll be putting up will be this competition entry.....so you'll just have to wait and see......


I always have trouble finishing tunes, this is half down to my PC being a bag of shiz and not letting me mix down loads of audio tracks..... it falls over at the slightest mention of audio when using Logic.


Towards the end of the summer tho, i'm planning on getting a G4 powerbook, getting a legit copy of Logic (which i think causes half the problems sometimes !) and then i should be firing on all cylinders (no excuses anyway !).


As for the stuff i've learnt, most of it hasn't come from the courses i've done as i only started them about 3 months ago, but i've been messing about with production for about 4 years now (f@ck is it that long !) and just learnt everything by getting in peoples faces and asking them how to do stuff. There are loads of sites on the web worth checking for good info on the basic, right through to the most complex stuff...you just got to search it all out, print it off and keep it somewhere handy so you can call upon it whenever you need it....


Dunno if you know of a site called Futureproducers.com, but there's loads of info on there and well worth checking out.... also try Spinwarp.com, although doesn't get updated as often as it should also has some good tutorials etc....( 1 by me also on breaks which you might find useful, if it's still on there).


Just search for my name on the site.